Michael Hartmann: 0:23

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of OpsCast. Brought to you by MarketingOps.com and powered by the MoPros. I am your host, Michael Hartmann. Joined today just by our co host, by the co host, Naomi Liu, Mike Rizzo. Please. It's been a while, so let's, like, really, like, say hello. It's been a long time. Woo

Naomi Liu: 0:43

hoo!

Mike Rizzo: 0:46

I mean, somebody was being really lazy. I'm just kidding.

Michael Hartmann: 0:52

That would

0:52

be

Mike Rizzo: 0:52

me. I'm just kidding. No, like Michael has been super busy and, uh, I'm thrilled that we all get to chat again, even though I sound like this. I was

Naomi Liu: 1:02

just going to say, sounds like you had like a, like a wild weekend or something like that,

Mike Rizzo: 1:07

you know? Yeah. But definitely a wild week. It's odd that it's like caught up to me like a full week later. But

Michael Hartmann: 1:15

so for those listening, maybe. At a different time, right? A week later. This is a week. We are recording this literally a week from the last, in fact, it may be almost exactly at the time when we sort of wrapped up MOps-Apalooza 2023. That seem about right? Yeah.

Mike Rizzo: 1:31

Yeah, it was right about, yeah, it was like roughly like an hour, hour or so. Yeah. One week ago. Crazy. It was a crazy event and my voice has all of the things to say for it. That's,

Michael Hartmann: 1:44

this is your hangover. This is

Mike Rizzo: 1:46

my hangover.

Michael Hartmann: 1:48

What happens in Anaheim stays in Anaheim. Is that

Mike Rizzo: 1:50

that is exactly why we don't host it in Las Vegas.

Michael Hartmann: 1:55

Oh, I can't even imagine what it would have been like in Las Vegas. So anyway, well, so we were, we thought we'd just get the three of us together just to do a recap, like, you know, the inaugural MOps-Apalooza. Um, I don't know. I think, why don't we just like, maybe go around, right? First impressions, like general impressions about the event. Um, who wants to go first? I can go. I

Naomi Liu: 2:19

mean, I, I, I mean, I think, I feel like I knew what to expect because, you know, Mike and I, and all, all three of us really have, Spent quite a bit of time over the last little bit talking about the event and preparing for it and reviewing speakers and preparing for our own sessions and whatnot. But I think it wasn't until you get there that you're like, wow, like one of the things that really struck out, stuck out to me was, you know, the fact that you could mention something that you were going through on a career or work level and you didn't have to explain any type of context or what you meant by X, Y, Z, because everybody either had been through it. Going through it or expecting it to happen and it was just really great to be able to talk to people that just got it, you know, um, and also just connecting with people that, you know, I had talked to over our slack channel or just on LinkedIn and seen or engaged with, um, on other social platforms and had just never met in real life. And it was just great to kind of put a face to a name or put a face to a handle, I guess. And that was just something that I found. Thank you. Even more so than sometimes, um, just even attending conversations, just like that one to one, you know, direct personal conversation with folks, like either in the hallways or at, you know, the networking events or afterwards at dinner. That was just something that I really,

Michael Hartmann: 3:42

really enjoyed. Totally. Well, why don't I go and then Mike, I'd love to get yours because you've got this very different perspective, right? This has been a full year of, you know, Word for you, but I think Mike coming in. I'd like you know me. I'm not sure I knew what to expect I was super excited, you know same like the same thing your last thing was what am I? Things I was really looking forward to which was getting to meet people in real life That I hadn't met or only met a couple of times and it just he would what what I walked away from it with Is it was great to meet all those people I hadn't yet in person, and yet I still miss some of the people that I really wanted to connect with in person, which tells me, you know, I think, um, a like people were in those sessions, which meant they were really, I think, really engaged with the content and the speakers and all that stuff. So I think that's a great indication. And it also means there's enough people there that it was just hard to connect with. People get everybody. So I think I think that was huge, which to me says a lot about where the profession is, too. I mean, I think the evolution of where where things have been. I mean, I think back to where the idea of community and what these things do started with me, you know, um, an email provider. Conference and then mark, you know, eloquent conference and the marketo conference and this had some elements of that, right? The connection, but it wasn't because it was sort of across. It was independent of the technologies and we had a lot of vendor vendors that were more sponsors and things like that, which is great. But I mean, it just felt like, like you said, Naomi, like there was just this really, um, common experience that we could all share. And help each other out. So that, that was huge for me. I came, came away super hyped, um, and, you know, looking forward to seeing what could happen with that.

Mike Rizzo: 5:43

Yeah, no, thanks for, thanks for sharing that. Um, you know, for those that don't know, uh, despite our ability to stay connected on Slack all the time, Naomi and Michael and I don't actually get to talk that much. Uh, so this is, this is the first time that I've actually heard that. feedback from them as well. So, uh, just responding to it, like, and sharing a little bit about what I, what I heard, uh, from people while I was at the show, um, it was a lot, a lot of very similar sentiments, right? Like people walking up and just. saying how connected they felt instantly to everybody. Um, and, and, and in general, the, the sense that like there was the pressure was off there, they're just, it didn't feel like a high pressure environment, um, which I, I'd never actually stopped to think about, like that word came up a couple of times pressure. Um, and I never really stopped to think about the, that feeling when you go to these. Uh, bigger conferences that are led by, by vendors, right. Some of it, of course is pressure'cause like, you know, yeah. There's vendors that are trying to sell you things or, uh, reps that you wanna meet with or partners or you're trying to earn business yourself. Um, and, and while some people may have been at the conference to earn relationships and find leads and potentially clients, um, I think in large part the event itself felt more like a, Hey, we're, we're coming together. To like learn and talk and communicate and elevate in, in this profession, in this vocation. Um, and I don't know that we tried to like set that tone necessarily. Like, like, yes, it was a community led event. Um, yes, it's vendor agnostic, right? But maybe it was, that's all it took to try to help set that tone. Cause I certainly, I don't think any of us. On the marketing ops.com team, nor in any of our messaging did we try to like push that messaging out into the market. Right. But I think once you were there standing amongst peers, who, to your point, like I didn't have to explain myself and I didn't have to figure out if they were gonna try to pitch me something, um, I just instantly felt like, oh, now I can just talk to you and, and I know who you are. I know what you do and it's fine. Um, and I think that was just such a big win. You know, the last piece I'll share on this is, um, many folks got to meet Dan Mott, who's my co founder for the largely for the 1st time. Um, because we used to refer to him as the secret co founder, because he's been sort of hiding in the wings, helping build all this stuff with me, um, amongst all of our other leaders in the community to help shape what we're doing, but, um. He and I have talked a lot about, does the, the intimacy or that feeling of, um, connection break when we did 50 person summer camps. You know, we were, we all walked away from those events feeling really, really special. Um, and, you know, so far it seems like it doesn't really matter. As long as you put a whole bunch of people who practice the same area together and, like, maintain that, uh, integrity of, like, you know, this is for you and not for anybody else. Um, it seems like that doesn't break at all. In fact, it, like, it's amplified. Um, you know, to your point, Michael, like there were enough people there that it was actually hard to find everybody, right? Yeah. Um, which I will tell you was not the expectation we had two and a half weeks before the event.

Michael Hartmann: 9:28

Well, I know, I know, you know, I talked about how, like, because I've. Worked for a few years in the event industry, especially coming out of covid, right? That there was this is pattern of late registration. So I'm super I think it's fantastic that you got all that sort of last minute rush and get people there. So for all those people who made last minute, uh, you know, plans to get out there. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Mike Rizzo: 9:53

Yeah. Yeah. We appreciate it. But please, uh, try to try to get that ticket a little earlier. I just started

Michael Hartmann: 10:00

earlier next year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Save us all a little stress.

Mike Rizzo: 10:07

Oh, man. It was good. Yeah, for context, folks. that are listening to this. Um, the, you know, our goal, our super stretch goal would have been 500 people in person bodies in the room. Um, we, the sort of like the target was about three 50. Um, I will tell you all two and a half weeks before the event, I sent an email out to the team who was producing it and setting up all the chairs, preparing the hotel for what our food order might need to be. All of the things that go into trying to prepare to house or host a number of folks and we had 175 people On the list Wow, and and the result was well, this is our event. So let's make the most of it We'll tighten up the room a little bit. We'll put up some pipe and drape We'll make it feel a little cozier, which is fine because we've done 50 people. We know what that's like. It's no big deal. Um, but let's go, you know, this is going to be our event. Well, uh, you all blew my socks off and showed up, uh, and we ended up almost doubling. We were at 330 people, um, which is mind blowing to me that, that, that much happens in the last couple of weeks. And everybody said that it would happen that way. Um, but if you can't hear it in my voice and I think you can, um, holy cow, that's a really stressful journey to go on and I don't recommend it

Michael Hartmann: 11:40

for anybody. Yeah. Uh, putting on an event is not for the faint of heart these days,

Mike Rizzo: 11:45

but yeah, but ton of fun. And we're, we've learned a lot. Um, the feedback is coming in from our survey right now. We're learning even more and, uh, I think next year will be.

Michael Hartmann: 11:56

You need better food. You need better food and drinks, Mike. That's all you need. Basically,

Mike Rizzo: 12:00

I need to have a lot better food and drinks. Um, I also need to get more bathrooms, um, apparently. So, so we'll figure that

Michael Hartmann: 12:09

out too. I don't really know what to say about that. It's

Mike Rizzo: 12:12

okay. I mean, look, look, you pick these venues for the best that they are. Right. And I love that it was next to Disneyland and people got to go. I was getting text messages from people that were at Disneyland before the conference started, like so thrilled that they got to come to Southern California where the weather, weather was beautiful. And that was fantastic. Yeah.

Michael Hartmann: 12:33

That was great. What, what, so that was sort of big picture impressions. Any, like, More significant takeaways from from all that. I can go first. I mean, I thought to me, um, the bookends, right? So Scott Brinker and then Juan Mendoza kind of beginning and end I think if you think about what they both talked about, right one was talking about, you know What's going on in the tech industry and the other one was talking about some of these innovators are out there Many of them like I had never ever heard of right? I mean there were a few on that those lists in the shortlist that were there but I was like Blown away at some of the really creative stuff, especially outside of the U. S. Right. I mean, I love that it was international. Um, but to me that like that, like that part of it, the A. I. Martech and where it's going, what's happening kind of outside of the kind of core stuff of marketing automation or CRM, where I think there's really not been it in general, right? Not a huge amount of innovation happening directly in those organizations. And from my perspective, there might be a few outliers here and there. So I think that was a big takeaway is like, what all is going on there? Cause I've been, truth be told, like sort of skeptical or, you know, kind of. Not totally wild about what's going on with AI or generative AI or machine learning and all that, like where it could play, but I'm, I think I'm more intrigued now by where that is. And then also I think it goes back to this, like the, I think so much of what people think about marketing ops has to do with Martech, but knowing how many sessions there were that were not about Martech. Really even at all, right. They might, there's privacy stuff. There was stuff about leadership, how to communicate with CMOs. Um, you know, how to, how to navigate your career, like all those things. I don't think that's maybe one of the big things, right. That you didn't necessarily get at some of these vendor hosted events. So to me, like the, the opportunity there to really help the profession again, become, um, you know, elevate it in terms of where it stands, I think is a huge, huge win.

Mike Rizzo: 14:43

Yeah, I definitely agree. Naomi, do you want to tack on to anything else there? Yeah.

Naomi Liu: 14:49

Um, I mean, speaking of 1, this is a bit of a sidebar, but he came up to me at the, at the, um, at the event and was like, Hey, Naomi, nice to meet you. You know, I'm the reason you're here. Uh, or you're the reason I'm here and, uh. I was like, I'm sorry, what? And he's like, yeah, don't you remember you, you, you, uh, responded to my, my DM on Twitter and I'm like, I did. And I don't really use Twitter. I think, you know, I'll, I'll be responsive if someone sends me something, but it's not a, what is Twitter? Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. Right. Um, you know, and, uh, I, I had to actually go back and dig through, but he was like, yeah, uh, you followed me on, on Twitter and I sent you a DM and normally nobody replies to me, but you did. And, and, and you said, Hey, I'm going to connect you with Mike Rizzo. And so you started a thread with us. And I actually went back and looked at it. And I actually, I did, I completely forgot this was in June of 2021. And he's like, yeah, and then Mike and I connected and we developed a relationship and then I'm here. I am. I'm here because you introduced me to Mike. So you're welcome. Mike.

Mike Rizzo: 15:55

Yeah. And everybody else. Thank you. Naomi, uh, that's pretty funny. I, I, I remember you'd shared that with me briefly, like towards the end of the conference or whatever, like, I totally forgot that, too. I

Naomi Liu: 16:08

forgot, too. I actually went back. I just sent a screenshot of the conversation into our slack thread.

Mike Rizzo: 16:14

But, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Juan's a great guy. Um, very passionate about just like, like being a journalist in our space. But like, um, you know, trying to avoid a bias as much as he can, like, everybody ends up with their own opinion, right? Um, and so he's naturally gonna skew one way or the other, mostly, like any writer will, but, um, I think he's, he's done a tremendous job. I do have

Naomi Liu: 16:42

to say, that one thing that I did really... Notice at this event was how much, um, everybody wanted to elevate each other, right? There was not a sense of, uh, competition or, oh, you did this and how did you get that? And like, if, if it was ever asked in that way, it was more like, how can you help me? Like, How do you, how do I have that? Right. And just the free knowledge, share the free, um, elevation of your peers and not having that underlying tone of like competitiveness and everybody just wanting to elevate the entire industry and having that support. I just felt it was such a great vibe because you can sometimes get that at some conferences where people can be protective of their knowledge and of their circle and of their network status. Yeah. Exactly. And that just really was not the case. I felt here. It was like, let me introduce you to this person. Oh, you should totally meet this person. I'll make you this introduction. Like it was just, I thought that that was such a great.

Michael Hartmann: 17:44

Yeah. I would echo that because my personal one was, you know, I got an opportunity to spend 30 minutes one on one with Scott Brinker. Right. Which, you know, I mean, if there's, if there's such a thing as sort of the, the, the founding father of the whole space, right, he may be, he'd probably be on the short list of people who get, get some credit for that. And, um, he was extraordinarily gracious and wasn't, he was humble. Um, we were actually talking because, uh, the company I was with. Um, when I was there no longer with, but, uh, was considering a move to HubSpot. But even with that, I think he's like, what really struck me is this, how he was like, yeah, I'm probably not the right person to ask all these questions you're asking. They were very detailed. Right. And he, but there are other people. And I thought that was huge.

Mike Rizzo: 18:35

Yeah. Yeah. It's nice. You know, Scott clearly, like, first of all, he's just a tremendous supporter of. Of everything we're doing, and I can't think of enough for being involved with our community over the years. Um, and for him to be, to be able to do that with us, um, was just really an extra special. Um, but I love, I love that he, he's, it's at this level of the ecosystem and, you know, yeah, he works for HubSpot, but like, you know, just like everybody else there, even, even Michael, who did a presentation about. Uh, how to leverage some of the latest technology, um, for their Go-to-market motion at Workato. Yeah, he talked about using Workato to drive it, but like, you know, everybody understood like, no, that was some really cool stuff that you just showed me. Uh, and I, I get that I can go do this in Tray or Zapier or Workato. You just happen to work at Workato and this is what you're doing as a marketing ops professional. There. Like, I think it's that same sentiment. Like nobody's there to like, just sit there and hawk, you know, services and product at you. They're like, no, like let's, let's like actually push this stuff forward. Um, you know, I want to go back Hartman to what you were talking about, uh, a little bit ago around. Sort of like the, the landscape of what Brinker was talking about, um, from an AI perspective, and then sort of bookending it on the final, the second long day, I should say, um, with Juan and sort of the innovation in the space. Um, I think, you know, if you, if for those that are listening to this episode now, and if you haven't checked out the content, um, you know, the virtual content will be available for the next 6 months in our virtual portal and then available on marketingops. com moving forward. But there's. There's some really good stuff coming up from, um, Paul Wilson about just sort of like our, uh, vocational, almost like responsibility to like usher in the, the era of AI and MarTech together. Um, and you, you sit at this just sort of like beautiful intersection of these solutions. Um, where if you're, if you're aware of the unique nature of go to market motion and business process, um, and how technology can and should sort of connect together. Um, now, if you've got a, I sort of partner in crime, um, to, I don't know, put you up at like super. Status, right? Um, you, you can leverage a lot of this stuff in a way that many individuals in the field will not ever even start scratching at, right? Like, you sit at a very powerful intersection of business process technology and a, and a component of AI to sort of usher in the future of, of what, uh, this profession can actually do for businesses. So I would encourage you to follow Paul, um, check out those sessions. And then reach out to him because he has a lot to say on the matter. And I, I'm, I'm paraphrasing terribly. Um, but he's, it's a really special time. And then the last thing is. You know, Daryl, Daryl Alfonso, um, came in towards the end of our conference. He was our closing keynote on the final

Michael Hartmann: 22:09

day. I don't know. Like I totally like that. Like there's been so much, like, how did I miss? I

Mike Rizzo: 22:13

know, I know there was some, there were some like just awesome speakers. Um, you know, and, and we learned Wednesday, like doing a half day on Wednesday is a great model for 50 people in a room, but not a great model for 300 people in a room. Um, and so, you know, we'll, we'll change our pattern next year, probably, but. Um, but Daryl introduced the new pillars of marketing operations. Um, and I think it actually, when you think about the narrative that you were just talking about, Hartman, right? Like, hey, there's this, like, intersection that Brinker brings up around AI The next 10 years being super interesting. You've got all these fascinating innovators that are coming into the space still and, and doing some really cool stuff globally. Uh, and then you've got Daryl who's sitting there as a practitioner rounding us out and saying like. All of that's great, but like where we think about our career going and how we get there needs some sort of framework. And he worked really hard on that. And I think, I think what he produced was absolutely a step in the right direction. And I'm sure we're all going to iterate on it together with him. Um, but I'm really excited about like sort of centering a lot of our conversations around. I envision many of our conversations being around sort of that career path, the intersection of all of those things, um, and, and, and largely around the pillars that he's introducing. Now,

Michael Hartmann: 23:47

I tend to agree with you. I think that's a next major step in the evolution. So I'm just curious. I mean, have you, Mike, maybe you're probably the best person to do this, but have you heard of anything that people have taken away from the conference and are already starting to apply some lessons learned to their, you know, the organization or what they're doing already or are planning on it in very certain near future?

Mike Rizzo: 24:14

I've heard people drop comments about that. Like they didn't. I've just been reading. I shouldn't say I heard it. I've been reading that there's been commentary around. I actually learned something that I'm going to try to put into practice. Um, I didn't I didn't prod or try to dig in on what that thing might have been at this point. Um, and then I think in large part, people are sort of leaving me alone like, I keep getting messages from people like, have you recovered? Are you sleeping? Why aren't you sleeping? Um, so I think that's part of the reason why I haven't picked up on some of it too, is that people are just like, ah, get out of

Michael Hartmann: 24:50

here. I have a feeling we're going to start to hear some of that in the near future.

Mike Rizzo: 24:55

I agree.

Michael Hartmann: 24:56

I totally agree. Um, So I'm curious. I know you're getting you're getting feedback right now, Mike. But, uh, you know, give you I think, you know, I've already talked, right? I don't think I've heard many negative. In fact, I don't think I heard any negative things about the event. I heard lots of different ideas of things. But, um, maybe we can talk about like what you see are like feedback on things you might do differently. And you talked about some of them already. Um, I for one would like to see, um, More tracks than what we talked about, right? Professional, like the, the kind of the career path stuff, learning, you know, these different skills that are required as you, you know, if you move up to be a people leader, or even if you, maybe there's multiple tracks that we have more of a kind of like the developer track, right? There's, you get, you stay in the engineering versus people leadership and so on. Like, I would love to see more of that. And then in general, right, just sort of tracks. So if you're interested in sort of a set, more of a general topic area, right, you can be geared towards. The sessions that apply to that, um, rather than spending a lot of time, kind of go like one by one to try to, to choose those. But really, I think that's, that's the one thing I would like to see. And then, um, yeah, I think, you know, just better food, Mike,

Mike Rizzo: 26:17

just better food. I'm going to work on that. I'm going to call the hotel. If we, if we go back to the hotel, it's going to happen.

Michael Hartmann: 26:24

What's your thoughts?

Naomi Liu: 26:27

Yeah, I mean, I, I feel like, I mean, aside from better food, of course, um, I feel like what something that I would have also like to see is a better way to connect with people aside from potentially just like. Walking into a group of people who are talking and then trying to introduce yourself. I thought, I think it would be interesting to be almost like a matchmaking session. That might be an interesting thing, right? So like maybe in the app you can sign up. I know I've been at events where at the app you can like sign up for a matchmaking, professional matchmaking thing, where you basically will put, be put into a group or a cohort of folks and you try to have lunch. Or during lunch, for example, there are tables where they're industry specific. So you sit here if you're in, Um, higher ed tech, you sit here. If you're in med tech, you sit here. If you know your small business, you sit, you know, things like that. Um, I think the event is small enough that you're still able to talk to people pretty directly and generally get a sense and know who's going and who everyone is. But as the event grows and, you know, I know you have some growth plans, um, like that will get harder and harder, right? Imagine next year you do get to your 500. That will become harder. Yeah, right. And then that kind of intimate feeling where it's kind of like a, uh, a big summer camp where you can't walk down the hallway without seeing somebody and stopping and having a chat with them becomes a little bit more difficult, which is. Not a bad challenge to have, but I think that if we are there to network with like minded people and learn from them, a lot of the things that, a lot of the great takeaways that I had too, was even just in passing conversations with somebody in front of a door as I'm walking into another session.

Michael Hartmann: 28:17

Yeah, I, I like the idea of doing it based, having those like topic area tables. I think I think that provides an opportunity. I mean, I guess I've never really, I guess that all three of us are lean more towards extroverts than introverts. Maybe, maybe I'm misinterpreting, which is easy to do. But I think people are introverts, right? It's a lot harder. So if there's ways to make that happen that make it less, um, intimidating, then we should, you know, that's a great idea for that.

Mike Rizzo: 28:47

Yeah, yeah, um, I totally agree, um, I would, so, you know, a couple, just like, riffing, riffing publicly with, with the two of you, and for those that'll listen to this now and in the future, like, um, you know, I think a couple of things, one will be, um, trying to facilitate the networking aspect of it all, um, there's, there's a thing called brain, brain dates, That you can, uh, put into your events. Um, so that'll probably be like one of the few times I call out like a vendor specifically. Um, but, uh, we will likely try to find a sponsor to support that. Um, it's a really unique way to like go, uh, source someone that is looking to have a conversation on a similar topic as you or, or what have you. Um, but. I've, I've experienced them at Sastr before, um, in a few other places and in large part, people find that a very rewarding experience and a very seamless one to try to find other folks that are sort of, uh, you know, in their space. To the idea of tracks, um, you know, the, the funny thing is, like, on our speaker intake form, we proposed about, like, you know, like, essentially, like, submit to speak, right? Uh, we proposed roughly, like, 4 categories or themes that things could fall into. Um, and, and, like, regardless of that effort, uh, we still got, like, a slew of tons of different things. And by the end, uh, the committee, Naomi included, Uh, selected all of the sessions that we thought would be the most interesting and most impactful, um, and, and my team, Dan and everybody else who was trying to promote the event said like, how do we group these so that we can like, you know, say like, Hey, here's this like track of stuff you could go learn about. And I was like, have at it, good luck because I have no idea they're all so good and like, yeah, there were a couple of things, right? Like career development might've shown up once or twice. AI might have shown up once or twice, but then it was like, there was every topic under the sun, which I think is illustrative of like, The function and the breadth and like the things that we need to talk about now, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to facilitate tracks and trying to make it easier to navigate as an attendee, but it was very difficult to try to lump if I gave you the breakdown of their descriptions and their titles. No, I

Michael Hartmann: 31:19

remember now that I was like,

Mike Rizzo: 31:22

man, how do I do this?

Michael Hartmann: 31:24

Uh, not a critic. My feedback was not a criticism. It was just more. Oh, no, no, no. I took it very constructively. Um, but yeah, as I think back about the topics I saw, like, I actually had a hard time choosing, you know, competing things because there were multiple things I'd want to go to. I had a,

Mike Rizzo: 31:41

like, the whole committee had a hard time choosing. There were so many good submissions that we, I mean, we had 120 people submit to speak. And we divvied those out across the four of us to try to figure out, you know, what we wanted, what we wanted people to sort of potentially learn or walk away with. Right. Um, and so I think, you know, it's a good learning though, in general, cause like, you're not alone, right? The feedback that's coming in, there's a desire to have a little bit more of a theme, even like, how do we, Um, right size, like junior sort of content versus mid or senior level content, because the challenges we're experiencing as, you know, director on up feel pretty different than the ones that we're experiencing maybe when we're entering the role, right? And so, um, trying to figure out how to like work with our speakers to say, well, who are you, who are you intending this message to reach, right? And then we could tag those tracks appropriately. Um, I think that'll help with the experience, just adding more value to the experience overall. So those are things that, you know, brain dates, figuring out how to improve sort of the networking and tracks piece. Um, I think those two will really help continue to elevate the, um, the, the, the whole experience as an attendee. And hopefully help us keep that, you know, summer campy vibe, right? Like, to allow for that connectivity to happen. So those are things and then we'll, we'll likely, uh, I will, I think right now where my head's at just based on early feedback is, um, I want to do Monday is a day for learning. So I think like courses or workshops. Um, and people can, you know, go learn from Carrie Picklesheimer or Tyron or whoever decides that they actually want to teach a course, uh, for a handful of hours. And it'll be smaller cohorts, uh, sort of bring in some of that summer campy vibe to those particular activations. But then we would probably only do like two days of, of content after that. So it'd be like Tuesday and Wednesday would be like, you know, the actual sessions and we'd be done. Um. And so I think if we, if we can bring in some of that deep learning time ahead of the event. And then still have two full days of great sessions, you know, sort of curated the way that we're talking about. I think that pattern might work better, but anybody that's listening to this before the next mops of 24, if you've got better ideas, like, yeah, we're all ears. Right. But that's sort of where my head's at right now. That's

Michael Hartmann: 34:23

good. Yeah. Well, and I, I mean, I think I told you to do like, I, I, we could, we could do a live ops cast, right. Or I want to do that. Either at the end or maybe each day or something of it. I don't know. We can figure it out.

Mike Rizzo: 34:38

Amanda, my wife, for those of you listening, uh, who's been involved, you'll probably see her name show up in the community and on emails. Oh yeah. She just reminded, she reminded me again today. She was like, you all three need to do an Opscast. And I was like, what are we going to talk about? She's like, bring a guest on. And I was like, that's true. I guess we could just bring some people up. We'll do it like the old radio show style.

Michael Hartmann: 35:01

That's

Naomi Liu: 35:01

for sure. Just do it. Like literally could just do it at the registration desk as people are registering. Ask them, have some commentary, you know, what are you most excited about learning here, you know, and that would actually be fun. Right. That would be, I think, really fun to stop and people randomly. And the first thing that comes to their mind.

Mike Rizzo: 35:19

Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Coveney was like asking people, Mickey or Minnie Mouse. I saw

Michael Hartmann: 35:24

that. Yeah. And then he spelled Mickey Ron. After he also, after his first one, he, you know, he tagged the wrong Michael Hartmann. Oh, yeah, that's right. Some other Michael Hartmann in like Boston is wondering who Jeff is. Yeah,

Mike Rizzo: 35:40

that's okay. I mean, there's

Michael Hartmann: 35:41

another. No, no, I gave him a margin. Oh, yeah, I'm sure we know that we know the other Mike Rizzo, right?

Mike Rizzo: 35:48

Yeah, he's a legend. We love him.

Michael Hartmann: 35:52

Cool. Well, all right. Well, so when are we going to know when 2024 MOps-Apalooza is going to happen sometime soon? Yeah, pretty

Mike Rizzo: 36:01

soon. Um, uh, we've got bids in from, uh, a few locations, one of them being Vegas. Um, and, and for, yeah, most of us, most of us throw our hands up at that one. Like, I don't really want to do that. Um, the, I would, the only reason I would do it in Vegas is one, it would be an off strip location. So, um, it's not like a total party city type of thing. Um, but two, the, if the rates were just that much better across the board, not just to host the, the food and the, the, and the rental space and all that stuff, but also the guest rooms. Uh, you know, I'm looking to host an event that is. Uh, accessible for everybody, right. And, and that's really like the decision that's the, that, that's what weighs into my decision on where we go with these things, but we'll see Anaheim's fighting pretty hard for us to come back. So, um, it might happen there. I guess we

Michael Hartmann: 37:00

all behave ourselves well enough, um, to, to want us to come back.

Mike Rizzo: 37:05

Yeah, they were, they were, uh, thrilled with the outcome of our event. Um, and they. They gave us kudos on the ability to, to, to host something in a first year, the way that we did. Um, and I just like, before we end this broadcast, like, uh, the production team, if anybody's thinking about putting on event, as long as it's not at the same time as this one, because I need my production team. Sure. But if you need a production team, I, there's nothing I can do to talk more highly or whatever, right? But like the, the team we have is. Unbelievable. Um, Becca and Yuning and their whole entire crew. I can't sing their praises like high enough. So if you need a referral, you reach out to me and I'll, I'll gladly introduce you, uh, to them because we would not have been able to do it without their help.

Michael Hartmann: 38:01

Well, and I'll just say like, kudos to you mentioned Dan. And Amanda, I know there are many other people from the Marketingops.Com team and a bunch of volunteers who, who stepped up to, to really kind of help get it across the finish line. So congratulations on a great event. I think it really was a game changer. And I think, um, everybody I've talked to is looking forward to next year already.

Mike Rizzo: 38:26

Yep. Yeah. Thank you very much. And that's actually a call out to the wild for those listening, like If you want to volunteer a little bit of your time, um, we will need help next year. Again, we didn't, we needed that help, uh, until about a week before. So, uh, lesson learned there. Um, but if you want to learn a little bit about what it takes to do this stuff and you want to volunteer some time, um, please reach out. Uh, there's ways that we can make that happen. Yeah, and Naomi and Michael, thank you for everything as usual, you know, being involved and supporting this whole thing. Naomi speaking at the event. I really appreciate that. Um,

Michael Hartmann: 39:06

happy to. Well, I think I think people saw my name up on a slide that I missed because I got there late and they thought I did a whole lot more than I did for the event. So I specifically

Mike Rizzo: 39:18

asked them to go. Thank any if they saw any of those faces in the room to make sure that they thanked them for helping us build what we've built here in this community. Because. Uh, this is, it's, it's all of us doing it, right? So like, it was like you and Jess and AJ and MH and Naomi. There's a few, there's a few folks in there. So yeah, we couldn't fit all the,

Michael Hartmann: 39:40

all of them. No, I mean, there's like, it's, it is definitely a community thing. Well, I, as always, this is, it's always so much fun just to riff together with the two of you. So I'm glad we got to do it again. Um, we need to try doing that more often. I

Mike Rizzo: 39:57

agree. And I apologize to all the listeners that my voice sounds like it does. I hope it'll be back soon.

Michael Hartmann: 40:03

All good. Naomi. Are you, uh, you getting rested up too? I am.

Naomi Liu: 40:09

Uh, I'm looking forward to American Thanksgiving next week. It's my favorite, uh, American Thanksgiving is my favorite Canadian holiday. Everything gets super quiet. I always can look forward to catching up on work and, uh, yeah, no calls. It's great. That's

Mike Rizzo: 40:28

awesome. Even better. See, it's perfect. You can go to a conference and then, you know, have a week of work and then take a week to catch up.

Michael Hartmann: 40:35

Exactly. There you go. Sounds good. All right, y'all. Uh, I think we will wrap that up right there. Thanks to all our listeners for, uh, allowing us to continue to, to share our, our wacky and crazy world with you and for supporting us, uh, even through sort of these lean, uh, uh, times for episodes, we're trying to get back on a. On a rotation there, but, um, until next time, we'll talk to you soon. Bye.