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Courtney McAara: Hello, I'm Courtney Makara, and this is the Society of Marketing Technology Consulting Podcast. SMTC has joined forces with the marketingops. com community, but our mission is still the same, to educate and support anyone involved in the MarTech world as a consultant.

Mike RIzzo: Hey, this is Mike from MarketingOps. com. If you're thinking about going into consulting or you're already a successful consultant, join us online by becoming a member. As a pro member, you can join the SMTC and other private networks at MarketingOps. com. 

Courtney McAara: In this podcast series, Grant Gregorian and I interviewed guests on their journeys as consultants.

Courtney McAara: We discussed all that it means to be a great MarTech consultant from setting up their business or joining an agency, And how to find new clients and keep their existing clients happy. I hope you enjoy the interview.

Grant. Who do we have joining us today?

Hey, thanks. Today we have Ashley Cruz, uh, from, uh, Televerde, but welcome, Ashley. Hi, Ashley. Hello. Thank you [00:01:00] for having me. Absolutely. Absolutely. So tell us your introduction into the marketing technology world. Uh, you've been with Televerde, it looks like nine years or so, quite a long time, but how did you, uh, how did you get started in this space?

Um, I would say I have a very unique story that probably many, um, haven't gone down on that journey. So when I was 21, I made some poor choices and I ended up going to um, prison in the state of Arizona. And so while I was there, um, I was given a very amazing opportunity by Televerti, which is an organization that works within the Perryville Corrections System in Arizona to allow women to come in to Work and it it gives you the opportunity to build a career while you're there And so, um, the majority of the roles there are around being a calling agent.

So I started as an LDR Um, [00:02:00] but i'm not really great at it And it wasn't something I wanted to do. And I actually asked them to fire, fire me at one point. Um, but I had this amazing manager, Jason Cortell, who just refused to do it. And, uh, he opened the door. For me to kind of, um, go into different areas. So I was in systems and then, uh, um, we happened to have a really amazing lady that joined our company at that time as well, April Brown.

And she asked me if I was interested in marketing technology and open the door for me to teach myself, uh, eloquent Marketo, and it just kind of spiraled from there. That's so cool. That's such a shout out for Televerde and shout out to your cool managers that supported you. I love that story. Yeah. I was going to ask, um, did they, so I suspect they have like a training program for the calling agents, but what about the.

How do you take the leap into the tech? Um, [00:03:00] so at that time there wasn't anything. Um, I kind of, uh, I kind of spearheaded that. Um, now that I'm the marketing technology manager, it's a little bit cleaner on trying to go into that. But at the time that I went into it, it was, um, going through a process to get access.

to the different tools. So there's like the Marquette University, the Eloqua University. Um, obviously being in prison, there's a lot of security. Um, so everything had to go through our I. T. Security for every link that I accessed for every phone call that I made to make sure that it was all business related because we have a contract, um, with Right.

And that's something that we value a lot at Televerti because that's what gives the ladies the ability to do, um, their different career paths. But, uh, being on the inside, it was pretty strenuous because like I said, every meeting had to be [00:04:00] approved beforehand. And so, um, going through that process, I went through the universities and then a lot of my knowledge, honestly, was when I started working with clients.

When we decided to go into the managed service space, um, I had some really awesome people that I got to work with on the client side that took me under their wing. And, um, they showed me a lot of tips and tricks. And at one point we did hire somebody from the outside to come in and work, uh, side by side with me.

Um, we had a couple of other people that we hired on the outside that went through a similar process and they were just, you know, mentors that helped me through trial and error. What was that like going to that client side and, you know, they're coming to you for advice and recommendations and kind of to know the tech.

And was that an easy transition for you? Or was that like, Oh, Oh dear Lord, what am I doing? I think it was mixed. I love talking to people when I don't have to sell something. [00:05:00] Yeah. When you're not the LDR, sure. Yeah. So as long as I don't have like a quota and it's me just, I can do it all day long. Um, I probably talk a little too much.

Um, so with the clients, I loved it. I, that was probably one of my favorite parts of the job is I got more client exposure. Um, because as you can imagine being, Inside you, you kind of have a limited pool of people you get to talk to, um, on a day to day basis. And so meeting with clients, you kind of got to not only expand your knowledge base, but you got to be a normal person for a day.

And so I absolutely love talking with them, even now, um, I would say that's probably one of my favorite things is getting to be on calls with clients and even when I don't really know what's happening, being able to be honest with them, because I think that's key and telling them, you know, that's not something I've experienced, but let's figure it out together and seeing the light bulb go [00:06:00] on and the brainstorming is awesome.

I love the strategy part of it. That's very cool. So now you're doing still client facing stuff, but you're also doing internal stuff. So you're juggling kind of both sides of that world. Is it like a 50 50 split or how does that work? It is not. And I, I know I've been asked a couple of times by different people.

What do you do on a day to day basis? And it changes every day is a surprise on what I'm going to be doing. Um, Which is good because as I told Grant whenever I was chatting with him before, I get bored. Um, and so the unknown is good in keeping me interested and keeping me on track and you get to learn stuff when you don't really know what you're coming into.

Um, I'm not saying that every day is a free for all. I mean, there's meetings and things that are scheduled, but every day there's something. Um, 100 percent internal helping our teams. Other days I'm 100%. And then there's other days where it's like a mix and I'm also helping [00:07:00] the team that I lead that supports all of that You know the this idea that like nobody really grows up saying I want to grow up and be a marketing technology Consultant, you know like that never happens my kids definitely don't really understand what I do or they don't want to be what I do because they don't even it's not a firefighting or it's not a superhero necessarily and so Everyone kind of Falls into it.

You're, and there's a lot of, um, self learning that has to go on throughout your career because like technologies change and you just kind of like pick it up. Just last week I was talking to, um, somebody else who is newly like a Marketo admin and she was telling me how she was in marketing before, but she kind of started getting more and more into the tech technical side of it and really enjoyed the self learning part.

So before, uh, prison and before getting into marketing tech, what did you [00:08:00] think you were going to be doing? And did you have any training? Like, did you have any technical, like inclinations? Did you, did you, you know, like take any coding classes or did you, you know, what was, what was, you have a Meister.

Space page is, is that I was a mom, um, that's what I did. And like, I was interested in different things. So I built my first computer when I was 11 because of my dad. My dad's a huge, um, And so my dad wanted me to go into computers. My mom wanted me to go into something that was more like people oriented.

So I decided I was going to be a child psychiatrist and that didn't pan out. Um, and then, and it didn't pan out cause I got, uh, I decided to get married very young, um, which everybody, I'm not going to get into that. That's a whole different podcast. And Like, I like to play around with technology. I took computer [00:09:00] classes and I took psychology classes when I was in high school to kind of appease both my parents.

Um, but I didn't really use either one of them. Like I said, I became, um, a mom and I was a stay at home mom and I like to follow things, but, um, no, it's impossible to do that at that point. Exactly. But I, uh, but then Yeah, but then through your, through your time at Televerde, like, um, you know, it's not enough to just do it once with Eloqua and Marketo.

Like you had to continually, uh, like what it would tell us about the journey, like what, and what, and like, what, you know, what are the some of the things that you had to learn along the way, both technical and otherwise, and then. What are you up to these days? What are you learning? All right. Um, so when I first started, I, I did the Eloqua university, uh, classes that they offer.

I was doing the Marketo, um, as I'm sure everybody says that have been through any type of schooling, taking the training and [00:10:00] actually applying it to real life or two totally different things. My first client I had was new to, um, Eloqua as well. And they were asking me all kinds of questions. And I will say that, um, help docs became my best friend.

Uh, we didn't have Google in there, so I couldn't really Google. Oh, that's so tough. That's all I do all day. That's all I do. It was rough. Today I have Google, um, because, you know, I'm, I'm home. So that makes a world of difference. And I will say that my team on the inside, I spend a lot of time with them and making sure that they have the ability.

I am they need Google that I can Google it for them and provide it because I will say that that has been my saving grace is anything that has to do with Marketo help docs eloquent help docs. Today I'm learning Salesforce. Also, I am running a team that sets up many tech stacks, which are outreach [00:11:00] and Salesforce for calling And as you can imagine, there's a lot of technology that goes into that for intent and for our phone systems.

And so I feel like I have been taking a deep dive into the world of marketing technology and just technology in general. Sometimes it feels like brain overload. And when I feel like I mastered something in integration, they're like, Oh yeah. Have you heard of this other one? And I'm like, Oh my God, there's another one.

Um, uh, I have a question. I feel like, you know, your dad wanted you to do computers and your mom had the social personality side. Do you think you ended up in the perfect hybrid to solve both? Uh, that's funny that you asked that. Yes, I do. Because. My dad, when I talk about tech, even though it's not the technology that he grew up with, you know, because when he says coding, he's talking about like C plus plus and stuff like that.[00:12:00] 

Um, and I'm like, no, I'm talking about HTML five. I just changed this URL link. Um, but, um, being the manager, I think it does make both of them happy, even though both of them, their eyes is closed. They're kind of just glazed over. Sure. Um, but. But it also probably feeds both parts of your personality, too.

You know, they both saw, you know, you had the brain kind of power and capacity to handle the tech stuff, but you have the social part, too. And you get to have client facing, and then you also get to solve, you know, integration problems. It's the perfect mix. It's the perfect mix. That's awesome. And to Grant's point, no one I think wants to do it.

In fact, when I heard marketing, I was like, no, thank you. Um, but it, it, it really is. It's amazing to be in because it does do both sides and it gives you a little bit of everything because it's so new. Um, you're constantly learning things, which I absolutely love. Um, And there's always some sort of challenge.

So, [00:13:00] and I'm very analytical, so that helps with that side of it. It's not boring. That's great. If you were talking to someone who was, you know, young or looking for a career change and they were like, um, I don't know about marketing technology or mops. Like, that sounds lame. What would you tell them? Um, I would probably tell them it is not lame.

It is probably the most exciting thing that you could ever experience. Um, I would talk to them a little bit about the different tools that you get to use and how you're constantly learning things. Um, you know, and honestly, the reason why I stuck with it, I think is because so many companies nowadays are going towards, um, automating what they do from a marketing perspective.

And so not only are you learning something and you're in a career that is going to give you the ability to go a million different ways if you want to, but you're helping major companies solve their problems. I mean, you're kind of their [00:14:00] hero. And so it's, you know, It's really awesome to work for a client that is a multi million dollar client, right?

Because we have some of those that have been out in the market forever and you get to have a conversation with their person like, I didn't know that. And it just, I don't know. It makes you feel some kind of way. Yeah, a little dopamine rush. I always talk about like getting little, you get, you win something, you solve a problem.

It is, it can be exciting. I know we're just, We're working on computers and it seems like this desk job, but I'm in the same boat as you. I love it. I love the analytical side and the people side. So I'm always encouraging young people to, to look into it. I think it's a, I think it's an interesting career.

And now that we're in the middle of COVID and quarantine and recessions, um, you don't think we totally know 100%, but it doesn't feel, um, recession proof might be a little bit, you know, Too dramatic of an expression, but it does feel like it's sustained sustaining itself through the recessions that are happening right now I would agree with you [00:15:00] and I I know that the the team that I support they tell me all the time I'm, so glad that you offered this As a position because it is something even if you don't go to televerti, right?

Because they do provide the ability to transition for certain roles, um, which definitely helps um When you're restarting your life But it, there's so many companies out there that need help, even if they have people that are on staff that have been doing it forever, because the technology changes so much.

I think that to your point, it's probably not foolproof, but it's definitely one of the more stable opportunities. Yeah, for sure. Have you ever, this is maybe a little off the cuff question. Have you ever thought about going? In house to one of the clients. I mean, obviously there's probably some, you know, legality of actually going to a client, but you know, actually going in house to a marketing department somewhere, or do you still just like the client side and consulting too much?

You know, I think that you should try everything [00:16:00] twice in life, and the reason why I say twice is because the first time maybe you were having a bad day, maybe you were having a really great day, and so you don't have the best perception, um, but after the second time around, I think you probably have a good idea.

Um, so I have considered going in house. To look at things. Um, I think it would be really neat to get someone up and running and to have probably that a little bit more stability from a day to day. But if I'm being really honest with myself, I don't know if I would stay in house. I probably end up jumping around or going back to consulting just because When you're doing the consulting versus in house, um, you get to work with different companies, you get to work with different teams and it just gives you, I think more of an opportunity to learn new things and to get a different perspective.

Um, and a lot of my learnings, again, came from being with different clients because they do things different. Um, I have one client that I swear they probably stay up at night and just come up with very unique [00:17:00] requests that I've never heard of in my life. Um, But it's awesome because I keep you on your toes.

Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, Hmm, that's interesting. And he's like, well, I don't know if we can do it, but can we try? Um, and so I think I would miss that side. Yeah, that makes sense. Grant, do you have any additional questions? I feel like I've been rambling here. No, I'm just, uh, I'm just listening and I think it's super cool.

Um, one thing I wanted, I was curious about is whether you are like, you know, with that. With that program, with Telaverde, whether you feel like you are, you know, like, are there others like you? Like, is there, like, what's the, what's the career path like? I, so there is the, there is the call center. Um, are people graduating to become, like, salespeople?

Are people going into the tech side of things? Can you just talk about that? program and what it, what it does for folks. Yeah, sure. Um, so I [00:18:00] think whenever they first started, right, it was all about calling. And so, uh, people have the ability to transition home, to be an inside sales rep. They can come home to be a, um, an account exec, which is sales.

Then we also have people that are coming home as, uh, what we consider client success. And so they managed, um, Right. It's all about client engagement and managing the programs that are working. Um, there's opportunities on the inside to learn marketing, specifically running the marketing programs, developing the content.

Um, a couple of people on my team, uh, there are some that are just absolutely brilliant and I would say any company would be lucky to have them. They have Java scripting skills. They have HTML. Um, they do coding on the backend to help us build new programs. Um, troubleshooting in it, there's help desk. Um, so I think that there's a wide variety, uh, we are starting to allow, um, more opportunities on the [00:19:00] inside because, uh, the department of corrections, which is their official name, they're really opening up opportunities and allowing us to try different things like social media and so that people can get that exposure.

So when they're coming home, right, they're not like I was where I came home after 10 years. And I'm like, what the heck is that? How do you use it? Why is everyone twittering? Yeah, what is that? Yeah, exactly. It was really weird going in. And yeah, there were cell phones because I'm not that old, but like the way the society is now, where it's constantly in your face, it was a bit, it was a sensory overload.

And so they're really giving women the opportunity to get all of that exposure. There's people in data if you like data and that's all you want to do. There's BI for reporting. So I think that they have a full gamut of opportunities for people. That's crazy. That's so, that's so cool. And, um, so exciting.

So I wanted to thank you for taking the time to chat with us today. Yeah. Thank you. I, [00:20:00] I really enjoyed it. And like I said, I talk a lot, so I really appreciate the opportunity to talk not just about my own journey, but Televerti because they really are an amazing company. That's so wonderful. Thanks so much, Ashley.

Thanks. And for listening to this episode of SMTC podcast. If you liked this episode, please rate us on the platform. You're listening to this on the readings, help make the podcast better, make it easier for other people to discover it. And also be sure to subscribe. And if you haven't already joined the SMTC by going to join smtc.

com and join as a member, it's free. We'll look forward to hearing from you. [00:21:00] Bye.