[00:00:00] 

Courtney McAara: Hello, I'm Courtney Makara, and this is the Society of Marketing Technology Consulting Podcast. SMTC has joined forces with the marketingops. com community, but our mission is still the same, to educate and support anyone involved in the MarTech world as a consultant.

Mike RIzzo: Hey, this is Mike from MarketingOps. com. If you're thinking about going into consulting or you're already a successful consultant, join us online by becoming a member. As a pro member, you can join the SMTC and other private networks at MarketingOps. com. 

Courtney McAara: In this podcast series, Grant Gregorian and I interviewed guests on their journeys as consultants.

Courtney McAara: We discussed all that it means to be a great MarTech consultant from setting up their business or joining an agency, And how to find new clients and keep their existing clients happy. I hope you enjoy the interview.

Today. We are joined by two guests.

Actually, we have Allie Widdick and Jamie Ellis who are both joining us virtually and actually have been working together to help Allie transition [00:01:00] into a. Uh, freelance consulting role. So Allie, why don't you go first and just tell us a little bit about where you are right now. We're kicking off 2021.

You're our first interview. Um, and you recently have made a leap and then you can kind of, uh, do a little introduction to Jamie as well. Yeah. Thank you for having us. Um, I'm very grateful for the introduction to Grant. who offered me the gift of time before I had made my official resignation. Um, and I, since then, I have resigned and I, my background is I was, um, I have 10 years experience leading marketing operations at a big digital agency, um, also worked in marketing at the big four.

Um, And then I think what the story is here is that burnout was really real for me in 2020. I think 2020 was a weird year for lots of us [00:02:00] and a lot of companies turned the pandemic into a productivity contest. Um, and we throw around the term burnout a lot and I think we're kind of becoming desensitized to it.

But, uh, the, the effects are very real when you're working around the clock. You're on 10 hours of calls every single day. Um, and I think 2020 also gave people time for reflection on what really matters, like your health and your family and pursuing passions. And so that's what led me to realize, um, I have always had a passion of working for myself.

Going out on my own and I needed an objective person to help coach me through that. So I hired Jamie to be my entrepreneurship coach and we went through, um, we're two months out of three months through a coaching program. Um, and it's been huge just having [00:03:00] someone else, um, help you make the plan of what exactly you want to do an objective person.

And I think the investment in yourself. Is no different than any other investment you would make. There's a huge return when you invest in yourself and invest in coaching. Awesome. That's so great. So Janie, um, why don't you chime in here and how did you get started with coaching people? And yeah, let's kind of talk about how you ventured into this world.

Of course. So I call myself a recovering marketing executive. Um, my last full time role, I was at the VP level and I was running marketing and inside sales for a cybersecurity company. I had a really strong career trajectory. It was something that I had planned from college. I was a director by 27. I was a VP by 30 and the next milestone was CMO by 35.

And I was tracking exactly to that. A couple of years into my VP position, I woke up and realized that I didn't Don't know why I decided I wanted to be on [00:04:00] this path and I wasn't sure if it served me anymore. So I took a step back from that traditional career path that I carved out for myself and I started doing a ton of self reflection and a lot of growth work.

And I realized that I had some of these natural skills and I was acting as a coach in so many different areas of my life to people, both professionally and personally. And. I realized I could turn that into a business and I could have that fulfillment of generating an impact with an individual when they see a problem in front of them and they feel paralyzed by it and they just need somebody to partner with to find that solution and to work towards it.

That's amazing. But, um, you, I heard that like paralyzing is that Is that one of the things that stops people? I mean, can you just talk through what sort of um, help that you provide? Like, what do you see? How do you, how do you actually help people make the transition? And what do you find people mostly struggle with?[00:05:00] 

Uh, everybody's struggles are different, but everybody has them and everybody has you know, limiting beliefs buried deep inside the brain that they might not even be aware of that might tell them, Oh, be afraid of this, or, oh, you can't do that. Or, you know, other people can do that, but I'm not sure if you, you can handle it.

And those things just kind of manifest into different areas of your life. And a lot of times they go unnoticed. Um, the nice thing about coaching is it's kind of the marriage of vulnerability and accountability. So I create a safe space for people to share what their vision is for where they want to go.

And then I help them come up with a plan. And then we figure out how they're best held accountable. And I've always been a natural problem solver. That's what I've gravitated towards. People my whole life have come to me with problems, and I've always loved it. And I never realized it's because, you know, the bigger the problem, the bigger the solution.

The, the thing that really lights me up and fuels me is helping people see that they are not the problem that's in front of them, but they are the [00:06:00] solution. And I think that that's one of the most powerful journeys that you can help somebody through. I love that. And I don't, I, I can totally relate because, um, I remember when I was first thinking about going independent into consulting, um.

I didn't realize that I was the one who was stopping me. Like, I think that's something that you don't think you, you, you make a ton of excuses about, you know, Oh, about money or about risk or about this or that. And I had a family at the time. So I had plenty of excuses. The biggest excuses. Ooh. Yeah, seriously, there's health insurance.

There's like, Oh, I'm going to be, I'm going to fail as a father and all this sort of stuff as a husband. And for me, I think the biggest thing was I didn't have a model. Like I, my parents were very professional, you know, they went to college and they had jobs. And so they had no notion of independent consulting or anything like that.

And I didn't have anybody around me. And I remember at the time I actually, I didn't have, I didn't even know that they were business [00:07:00] coaches. And, uh, You know, what helped me a lot was Twitter. I remember I was on Twitter and I followed a ton of like independent type people and entrepreneurs and just having the daily kind of like conversation from them, um, really helped me kind of get into the mindset and, and at least realize that, wait a minute, I don't think this way.

And I remember I had this recurring thought of like, who do you think you are? And I remember catching myself. Well, you know, like I'm doing that. I'm the only person who's putting me down like that. Imposter syndrome, total imposter syndrome. And I was shaking with fear and I, and I just, um, so it took, I think the way I did it, the way, I had to overcome it is just taking baby steps.

I could not jump off a cliff. I had to do just a little bit at a time, you know, while I was working, get this client, learn how to do this. And then, and slowly, but surely I just kind of looked around and said, wait a minute, like I'm [00:08:00] kind of doing it already. So all I need is to just quit and then, you know, cut the cord.

One observation I've taken from this year also is this mindset of like, you're so lucky to have a job or we're so lucky to be employed. Yes. And it's a very scarcity mindset. And once you get out of that and start realizing, and Jamie helped me realize this, that there's so many opportunities out there.

There's so much need for fractional marketing help. Um, you could get out of this like, Oh, we're in a pandemic. You're so, you're so lucky to have a job. I hate that. I, I actually know exactly what you're talking about. I remember, uh, last year I, um, When I was, I was, I had a full time job and then I didn't have a full time job.

And one of the most helpful things that happened was a friend of mine called me like right away, he was the first person to call and he's an independent consultant. And he was like, dude, there's so much oxygen out here. Don't you even worry about it? And I remember just how [00:09:00] comforted I felt that like, cause you don't know, you don't know if there are projects out there.

You don't know that there's client work out there. You are blind completely. And so just having somebody just tell you that. Um, uh, even even that itself could be reassuring. Jamie, what are some of the ways in which you get people to have a more positive mindset like this to believe in themselves? I mean, a lot of it has to do with just giving them the space to express what it is that they really want and pointing out the areas that they can, you know, reasonably Reach and then unpack the things that they feel like they can't, you know, I would never recommend somebody make a leap without some kind of safety net or plan because there's just, you know, so many question marks out there.

And that can be even more stressful and scary. But the plan looks different for everyone. So like for alleys, um, Plan, you know what the things that she wanted to talk about when we met were things like health insurance, making sure that she understood how to incorporate doing [00:10:00] tax research, um, how to network, how to define her offerings, how to actually go about her resignation.

These were all things that were question marks floating around in her head that led to that paralysis for, you know, Ali, I don't know how long this has been a thought of yours. I know it's been years that you've been thinking about doing this, but, um, being able to sit down and articulate to somebody and say, these are all of the things that I'm, I'm kind of afraid of, and that are holding me back or that I don't understand, identifying which ones can be, you know, outsourced to experts, which ones you can research yourself, which ones you can lean on your network for, and honestly, just is Tagging dates and creating a timeline to do these things is, is the best way to kind of catapult somebody into that more positive mindset because Ali, I'd love for you to speak to, I mean, the first time you texted me saying like, wow, I'm telling people that this is what I'm doing.

I'm throwing these boomerangs into the universe and they're all coming back with something better. Um, it just, it's, it happened [00:11:00] immediately and that's, it's. What happens with all of my clients as soon as they start really putting themselves out there and shifting to the commitment that they want to achieve this next goal.

The universe starts cranking and things start happening. Yes, I totally believe in that. And once you start manifesting it, um, it's, it's really crazy what starts coming your way. Um, but one thing I really appreciated about Entrepreneurship coaching is that Jamie puts these like very tactical this step, this step, this step, this deadline.

Um, we did a lot of back and forth of how does it feel to take a full time offer elsewhere versus how does it feel to work for yourself? And we weighed each pro and con of those. Um, It's a very like, I don't like talking about feelings very often. So she was just very meticulous about making a plan from the feelings.

And that's what I greatly [00:12:00] appreciated. You know, what's funny is that I, when, if, whenever somebody thinks about Going off like this, a lot of times our thoughts immediately turn to outward things like, Oh, but what about the taxes? And what about the, this or that, you know? And it sounds like a lot of the actual work needs to come inside, you know, it's inner work and, um, Did you, when did you realize that Allie, did you know that about yourself?

Or did you first start thinking about taxes and then like realize that you were kind of paralyzed by your own thoughts? Or how do you come to that realization? Um, I've done a lot of self work over the last couple of years, so it's not like this was a, But I think when you're not living in congruence with like, I wanted to work for myself.

I did not want to be shackled to my desk and my phone for 10 hours a day. Um, [00:13:00] it was like nothing else was able to, to fit into congruence until I addressed it. The fact that my job was very demanding and I wasn't doing what I was really passionate about. Um, I don't know if that answers the question, but it's like, I felt very stuck in a lot of ways because 60 hours of my week was draining my energy.

It's actually really interesting. So the first time we met, um, I had offered Ali just like a complimentary session to level set and set some goals for 2021. And I knew that this was something that was of interest to her. Cause she had mentioned it before, but I didn't realize it was like. on the horizon.

Um, but as we were talking through everything that she currently liked about her life and all the things she wanted to change, everything she wanted to change kept coming back to the limitations of her current full time job. And it was almost in no time that she like very emphatically said, I need to leave my job and I need to come up with a plan.

[00:14:00] And these things she knew, but when we sat down and we outlined everything that was getting in the way, it was just, it became very clear to her and she, she shifted almost immediately into the new space of this is happening and it's happening now.

I think that's really interesting. And Allie, I feel like I relate a lot to your situation because I was in this gray area where I was still at my, you know, full time employment and I was considering consulting, but I wasn't sure and I was feeling burnt out. But then as soon as someone, a friend or a former coworker would reach out and, you know, text me or send me a message on social media, like, Hey, I want to, I'm working on this big project, right?

This big moths project about technology. I want to integrate or life cycle. I would voluntarily talk to them about it, and I would get all amped up and jazzed. I knew I wasn't actually burnt out about the work itself. It was something else, because I still wanted to talk about soaring and, like I said, life cycle programs [00:15:00] and nurture.

So, yeah, you still found passion in the work, but there was somehow like the channel that it was coming to you was not appropriate. Agreed. Yep. So Jamie, my question for you is, how long have you been doing your consulting? And then did you also, did you have to consult yourself on, I'm going to, you know, have my own business.

And did you have your own imposter syndrome and, and how does that work? It's very meta of, I want to do this, but I need a mentor to help me and for myself. Do you have any stories about that? Yeah. So 2020 was an interesting year for me. It was pretty transformative, but I left my company, um, the summer of 2019 and I immediately did part time consulting just to keep the lights on while I figured out what I wanted to do.

And I knew it wasn't that, um, but I had been, um, A marketer for, you know, over a decade, it was skills that I was really good at. They [00:16:00] were things that I could charge money for and pay my bills. So I started doing that just to keep the lights on. And then I just, I devoured every book that I could about, you know, purpose and passion and redefining yourself.

And. I tapped into so many different networks. I'm, I'm part of a wonderful women's executive community here in New York called chief and that community itself is very focused on coaching and they, it was my first real exposure to that coaching culture. And so like, I worked with a coach through that group.

Um, I met a lot of coaches and I started to realize that that's. What lit me up about all of my previous jobs was when, when I was in the driver's seat to help somebody find a solution to a problem and to come up with a plan to fix it. And so then I sat down on a journey to actually become professionally certified.

So I went through a certification program that took me about nine months to learn the ins and outs of being a, you know, a full time professional executive coach. And I [00:17:00] started coaching during that time. There's the, the industry isn't regulated. So it's, You know, you could wake up tomorrow and be like, I'm a coach, but, um, which, you know, can be a little bit frustrating because it can give the term or the industry a bad rap, but, um, I, it was important for me to have some kind of professional certification to, to add to my portfolio of experience and credibility.

So, um, to long answer to your question is I've been coaching, um, in an official capacity for about a year. And I'm just now taking the gas off of my marketing consulting business to fully focus on coaching. Very cool. I love that. And I think it gives, you know, yourself a little validation and like a public, you know, badge to say, I'm investing in this.

I'm taking this seriously. This is not You know, some something I'm just doing on the side. Um, I do have a little bit more of a deeper question and hopefully I'm not putting you on the spot too much, but without going actually into [00:18:00] what you're charging like the dollar amount, but how, how do you feel about talking about, you know, the value of your services and charging people when you.

The people that you're talking to are going to quit their jobs and they're not going to have, you know, Allie just is like, I'm not going to have a regular paycheck anymore, but you're obviously need to get compensated for the consulting that you're offering. Is that like a delicate balance or is that something that you feel real comfortable and confident, uh, you know, addressing?

You know, confidence talking about money and charging for my services was something that I used to struggle with and I just don't anymore. I think I got some practice consulting, um, for, for marketing clients. Um, that, that definitely helped build my confidence, but at the same time, having skin in the game and paying for something kind of ups the accountability on the client side.

And I found that people don't balk at the rates that I'm Putting in front of them, you know, I don't charge an arm and a leg because I am early in my coaching career. It's it's I am still charging what a fair price [00:19:00] for my services, but I haven't had anyone push back on them. And I also have you know ways to lower the cost.

So like I have a referral program. Um, if you're liking what? What's happening and you send me a client that books with me. I'll You know, I'll give you a free session and that's one way to lower the cost. But it's also not a lifetime investment. My goal is to work with clients for a few weeks to a few months, get them in a place where they're, you know, their, their speed is picked up enough that they don't need me and they can run.

And, you know, the, I think Ali mentioned at the beginning of this, an investment in yourself like this is just as important as any other use of your money. Yeah, I think just, you know, Like when you feel stuck in certain areas, if you felt stuck with your fitness journey, you would probably hire a fitness coach or with your money, you would hire somebody to help be a financial advisor.

I just think demystifying coaching is, uh, there's a huge return [00:20:00] when you invest in yourself. I love it. So last, last set of questions, um, which is Ali. So what do you do now? How would you, um, how would you describe how, you know, pitch, pitch your services to us and let us know who you're working with and what do you do now?

Yes, so my LLC is called Marteca. I'm still getting everything up and running, um, but I'm aiming to solve the problem that marketers leave so much data on the table that could better, uh, be better used for demand gen campaigns. So what I'd like to be selling in summary is data cleanliness. Like, how are we keeping lists clean?

How are we using personas to properly nurture people? How are we setting up scoring, um, determining a marketing attribution model and handing off true sales, accepted leads, um, I'm going to be taking on to clients every 90 days. And my hope. And one thing that I [00:21:00] worked with Jamie on is that my, my real, not my real passion, but.

My side passion is trading and investing. I started a side hustle called help her invest. And my goal is that I'll have one day a week to focus my time and energy on help her invest. I love it. Cool. I'm going to check that out because I am a very beginner in that world, but I am getting more and more curious.

Yes. I have a how to get started guide I can send you, but it's great. Help her invest on Instagram. Love it. And Jamie. Um, what about you? Is this, is this your niche is like, Hey, I'm thinking about quitting my job. I should call Jamie or can you just give us a 30 second. Like the description of what you do and how people can work with you, of course.

So I do love the person who wants to quit corporate America and go out on their own, because I think there's so much power in doing that. Um, but in general, I'm focused on working with professionals who have a challenge to overcome. So, you know, some of the coaches that I have in my [00:22:00] network, they like to focus on taking somebody from good to great.

I really like it when somebody's, you know, kind of either feeling down or they have a problem that they feel like they can't overcome. And we can work together to come up with a solution. So whether that's trying to get a promotion at work, when you feel like you've plateaued, or like I said, quitting your job, or, um, one of my clients is a first time author that wants to write a book, but has felt, you know, very discouraged for years.

Um, it's just when there's, when there's something that's in your way and you find yourself trying to do it. A couple of times, and it's just not going the direction you want. Sometimes it's good to take a step back and ask, you know, is there, is there a resource I haven't considered that could help me do this faster?

Love it. Well, with that, uh, thank you both for being on this podcast and for having this conversation with us. Thank you, Grant and Courtney. And thank you for listening to this episode of SMTC podcast. If you liked this episode, please rate us and leave us a review. The readings make the podcast better and make it [00:23:00] easier for other people to discover it as well.

Also be sure to subscribe. And if you haven't already joined the SMTC by going to join smtc. com and join as a member, it's free. We look forward to hearing from you. Bye bye.